Regarding Alex being one of "the others" carrying the teddy bear...
...she should be 16 years old by now -- too old for clinging to a stuffed animal by "our" social standards.
...on the other hand her "socialization" was/is completely dependent upon the adult "others", and has no concept, knowledge, or experience of life away from the island.
...in the episode "The Other 48 Days", this teddy bear is being held by the girl-survivor of the tailend at their beach campsite.
Regarding why "the others" kidnap or steal children...
...if "the Others" do indeed include the deGroots and possibly other researchers, a child, especially an infant, would be the "perfect" research subject in that the child would have little to no memory of life without "the Others".
...possibly the best subjects to study the "nature vs. nurture" debate regarding human psyche and behavior, as the researcher would have total control over what the child is allowed to learn and experience. test
In some episode (possibly the other 48 hours), they mentioned that the people on the list are 'innocent' or 'good', children usually are 'innocent' or 'good' by default. --skks 05:13, 9 March 2006 (PST)
Two factions of Others
Goodwin and Ethan could also be part of the same group as Mr. Friendly. In order to infiltrate the survivors they would've had to dress like them instead of old clothing. Zeke, the twins and rest wear old clothes merely to appear more threatening.--Gonzalo84 10:12, 10 February 2006 (PST)
A new name for this faction?
Like it's said in the article and in the podcasts, the term "Others" is very vague and arbitrary, we all know who we're talking about when we say "Others" but there might be a time where there are The Others, The Other Others, The Most Otheriour People etc. and it would be easier to make the change early than late. Ofcourse, I can't think of any good names either, which ofcourse has something to do with the fact that we don't really know anything of the Others' affiliations for sure. --skks 01:52, 14 March 2006 (PST)
- I'd wait a bit. If (though I think "when" is more appropriate) another group of "Others" appears, and a better idea of who/what the current Others are is established, The Others could be moved to something else based on what they are called on Lost, or what the community latches onto as a term for them: Dharmites, Hatchies, O.O.P. (Original Otherz Posse)...--Isotope23 06:13, 18 May 2006 (PDT)
Subjective and Irrelevant Phrase
I'm of the dubious opinion that there are no "Others." Anyone who wasn't on Oceanic 815 will be an "other" until 'our' survivors are comfortable with them. The writers are making a societal statement of the "us vs them" mob mentality that groups of human beings tend to gravitate to in the absence of sensible thought. By season four I wouldn't be surprised if the island is divided up over eye color or something equally ludicrous. Might be of interest to compare this series to the Twilight Zone episode "The Monsters Are due on Maple Street" (1960) with regards to paranoia, factional division of social interaction aka cliqueism, and reactive panic behavior. ZachsMind 16:18, 18 April 2006 (PDT)
...
I mean let's look at it this way. Who first coined this term anyway? Rousseau. She's pretty dependable in the brain pan department don't you think? At least as qualifed to coin terms as any other lunatic babystealer. Rousseau's also not a survivor of flight 815. She too is an 'other' and yet she was pointing fingers at 'those' others over there out of sight. Either by design or coincidence, it was a way to help her befriend newcomers against a common foe, whether it's really there or not. The 'others' are not a group of people. They're individuals, some of which are in groups and some of which are not. Referring to anyone they can't see or haven't befriended as 'others' is as absurd as referring to any muslim or christian or jew or anyone whose beliefs are different from you as 'terrorists'. For those of us viewing the show and trying to make sense out of it, 'The Others' is terminology that muddies up the playing field. In short, it doesn't help. It might even be harming getting to the bottom of ..well whatever this show is anyway. Instead of referring to groups as 'others' try giving them monikers that are more descriptive, and thus diminish the curious vague ookiness of the unknown. The Tailenders might have been misconstrued as 'others' early on. Those babystealers aren't others. They're babystealers. Call them as we see them. Rousseau's a fruitcake. Don't let her be the namemaker.
Besides, the whole delineation of who's from Flight 815 and who's not is about to change anyway. As we lurch into season three, the castaways will begin to be paranoid when they realize that there are those who want to leave the island and there are those who want to stay. The motives of the ones who want to stay will begin to freak out the straights even more. Then your 'us vs them' mentality will really kick into high gear. ZachsMind 18:33, 18 April 2006 (PDT)
Are you saying that you don't like the name of the faction or that you don't believe the faction exists? I don't think there's any point in changing the name until we have something more solid to call them by. We don't really know enough about them to name them, and The Others is as good name as any at this point. The factions in play at this point are The Survivors (with subfactions like middle section & tailenders) and The Others, there might be more factions (like DHARMA) in the future but at this point it would only mix things up to start planning for any theoretical situations. If you're saying that the faction doesn't exist - you're free to add it as a theory, but I doubt you'll get much support on it. --skks 19:23, 18 April 2006 (PDT)
Are you saying that you don't like the name of the faction or that you don't believe the faction exists?
Yes.
I don't think there's any point in changing the name until we have something more solid to call them by.
I don't think there's any point in using the name until we have actual proof there is an "Others" to call. Like if a dozen of them are shown jogging out of the underbrush wearing matching jerseys.
We don't really know enough about them to name them, and The Others is as good name as any at this point.
We don't really know these "Others" are THERE, aside from Rousseau's word. There ARE other groups of 'survivors' on the island. To the oldtimers on the island, these new upstarts from Oceanic 815 are "the Others" who need to be taught that the island is not theirs. The only reason we're rooting for Jack's pack is because we landed on the island when they did. Referring to anyone outside the Oceanic 815s as "others" demonizes that which is unknown. We need descriptors. "The Others" isn't a descriptor.
There is not a single individual or group of individuals on that island who call themselves "The Others." That's a Rosseau invention and she's a fruitcake. ZachsMind 20:55, 18 April 2006 (PDT)
- If you're not trolling it out, I suggest you check out the season 2 episodes The Hunting Party and Maternity Leave --skks 04:51, 19 April 2006 (PDT)
- Trolling? Hardly. I simply see a glaring misconception in this website that can adversely affect the very structure of how information is proliferated. When in the future the writers give us more info, we'll discover there are multiple factions on the island. It's not Jack's Pack versus one organized group of people who call themselves "The Others", but several different groups and individuals, most of which probably don't bother with affiliation monikers of any kind. In both Hunting Party and Maternity Leave, at no time does the alleged leader of the alleged "others" give that term any credibility. It's a subjective phrase and therefore useless. To Zeke and "the others" the Oceanic 815 people are "the others." The island is their home turf and Jack's pack are the intruders. Anyone can be described as an 'other'. When Charlie finally goes off the deep end irrevocably, will we start calling him 'one of them'? When Walt returns and it's determined he's been sufficiently brainwashed into turning against his own father and side with his captors, will we call him an 'other' then? It's vague and silly. ZachsMind 09:37, 19 April 2006 (PDT)
- I have to agree with ZachsMind here. Given the islands propensity for picking up wandering people, I think it's *very* likely that there are multiple groups of castaways on the island. In fact, things are rigged in such a way as to prevent people from exploring too far inland (black smoke, wild animals, pushing a button every 108 minutes) making it very possible that other relatively large groups are undiscovered. Also, it explains perfectly why the (Presumably) DHARMA others dress up like Robinson Crusoe when they commmit mischief against the Oceanic crew - in order to encourage them into conflict over cooperation. Absalom 15:03, 8 May 2006 (PDT)
Michael's opinions
I think that anything that Michael has reported about the Others should be viewed with suspicion, since he is has obviously been compromised. He could very well be giving false information about the Others in order to lead any assault into a trap. I'll add another bullet to the article to denote this. -- C13 07:46, 7 May 2006 (PDT)
I'd take it a step further and consider making a "Michael and the Others" section in the others page, owing to the complexities of recent events and their implications. --Frieze 12:28, 8 May 2006 (PDT)
Multiple Factions, and Other Ramblings
To take a slightly less extreme tack on the points made in the above "Subjective and Irrelevant Phrase", it seems that there may be no single homogenous group of "The Others" but rather several factions on the island, including the show's main characters, "The Survivors". Those people generally considered "Others" tend to fall into two ambiguously defined groups.
Firstly there are those I think of as "The Primitives". These are the people who walk around barefoot dressed in rags in the jungle while remaining completely silent, as seen in S02E05. Given the apparent integration of the children snatched from the tailies into this group it seems safe to assume that some manner of swift and rather total personality change is inflicted on people entering into this group. Anyone who has tried to get a small child to do anything silently for any period of time, even one who is not recently orphaned and in uncomfortable and unfamiliar circumstances, can attest to the impossibility of making one conduct themself in the manner observed in S02E05 "...And Found". This dovetails rather nicely with some of the hints toward the nature of The Sickness given by Rousseau.
Secondly there are the initiative types. I'd typify these people as the ones we saw in The Staff in S02E15 "Maternity Leave". They seem to behave like fairly rational educated westerners, albeit ones following an agenda we do not understand. The compassion displayed by Alex in freeing her indicates that at least some of them behave in a manner fairly consistent with what most people would consider normal, assuming of course that it all wasn't a charade. While there are exceptions to this, such as the thousand yard stare displayed by Ethan Rom and Goodwin when they are confronted as "Others", this could easily be explained by simple commitment to whatever cause The Dharma Initiative (or whoever they are aligned with) is pursuing.
The greatest difficulty in drawing a line between these two groups is the fact that at least one of the initiative people, Mr. Friendly, aka Zeke, masquerades as one of The Primitives for the purpose of communicating with the survivors. I for one am assuming that the rest of the torch bearers in S02E11 "The Hunting Party" are working directly for the initiative.
Additionally the relationship between these two groups is very unclear. The kidnappings among the tailies were conducted using a compiled list of victims, which would imply that the kidnappers were initiative types. However the total silence and single-mindedness of the attack seems more consistent with the behavior of "The Primitives". If we assume that The Sickness is some manner of contagion that fundamentally alters the behavior of individuals, then we could hypothesize that the two groups operate together, with the uninfected making the plans and orchestrating things, and the infected following their instructions with quiet single-minded determination. This could explain the pursuit of "Good People" who would be deserving of protection from the sickness due to their worthiness to rule over the infected.
That said, the bulk of this theory is built upon the rather thin reed of the few seconds of The Primitives wandering in the jungle acting in a strange manner. I suppose it is not completely outside the realm of possiblity that they wandered on the course and in the manner they did expressly for the purpose of being observed, in order to reinforce the impression that the others are scary jungle dwelling freaks, but I tend to discount that theory. Unlike Mr. Friendly's encounter with the raft, or in the clearing, this encounter would have been very difficult to orchestrate, even with a fairly high level of surveillance.
Sorry for the length of this rant, it's a theory I've been refining for some time. --Frieze 08:28, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
- The possibility exists that your Inititive types are dressing up as the Primitives and doing what they do so that the Protaganists will automatically view the other group with hostility upon encountering them for the first time. Also, this makes the survivors very prone to hiding rather than confronting the Primatives (Michael and Eko in the jungle).
I find it difficult to believe that there are quite as many "factions" of people on the island as the several above posts say. I do think that there are more groups on the island than just the Losties, Rousseau, and the "Others", but I don't think we have met them yet, owing to the relatively small part of the island actually explored. That said, I think that both the "primitive" looking people and the "scientist" people are one and the same. The "scientists" have created this entire persona of crazed wildmen to throw any random, meddling crash survivors off their scent, not to mention Rousseau and the other, unseen groups. Whether these people work for DHARMA, Hanso, Widmore, or any other known corporation or scientific group is unknown at this time, and we don't really have enough substantive evidence supporting such a theory. All we know is that they have access to the hatches and possibly some DHARMA/Hanso/Widmore equipment. I also am fine calling them the "Others" for now, simply because I can't think of a more descriptive word for them, but I can see where people might think that arbitrary. I agree, and as soon as I learn more about them I will definitely stop saying "Others", but until then, it will have to do.--Jacksbrain 19:37, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
"Fast-growth"
I added the following to the main page:
The others are "fast-grown", in that they're children who have been grown into adults much faster than naturally. This could explain the child-like distictions of "good people" and "bad people" that Henry Gale seems to have, as well as explain away Walt's growth over the past few months.
Reading an external spoiler link off of one of the episode pages, it has been indicated that "Walt's growth" will be explained in season 3.
Clearly, the next time we see Walt he'll be older than he should be (obviously, he's grown because the actor himself has aged over the past year - but on the show, in which episodes take place over days, he'd be pretty much the same).
Which Hanso project do you think this could fall under? It would seem counter to the "Life Extension Project", as advanced aging is its opposite. Or do you think mine is even a valid theory at all? -- Jre 12:37, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
- This is definitely an interesting explanation of the peculiar behavior and emotional weirdness of some of the "Others". If this does turn out to be a factor on the show I wonder how much of it will be because it is integral to the plot and how much is simply to explain Malcolm David Kelly's growth. --Frieze 13:00, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
- How would this relate to the apparently normal age of Alex?
Question about the "Members" list
Should we really have Walt listed as a member of the Others? It seemed to me in Three Minutes he really wanted Michael to rescue him and take him away from there. That doesn't seem like someone who is a member of them in this sense. Maybe change Walts' entry to "being used by"? -- PanSavant 22:26, 20 May 2006 (PDT)
- You know, on further reading, he IS listed in the "taken by" subsection. However, I still think he needs to have some other addendum than just his name -- PanSavant 22:28, 20 May 2006 (PDT)
The Theory There may be two groups of Others on the island
After the penultimate episode of Season 2, this is what I now believe. There are the others that Michael and Eko saw, and kidnapped Cindy and were "sick", and the DHARMA Others, led by him featuring Goodwin, Mr Friendly, Fake Henry et al using them as a cover for themselves. This is why they guard the DHARMA station they do with heavy looking weaponry. --Plkrtn 15:43, 21 May 2006 (PDT)
- If there is more than one group than we haven't seen it, because all of the Others we've seen are in the same group. The DHARMA's include Ethan, who knows Zeke, who knows Henry, who knows Goodwin, who knows the "Primitives". Therefore, even if there are two groups, there is no proof of the other. --Sauron18 00:48 23 May 2006
The uncanny knowledge of the Others
How is it that even though the survivors had only been on the island for a night or so, the Others managed to have lists with their full names on them. And further, how is it that they knew Sawyer's real name, when even Michael did not? Has this been alluded to in some other episode and I just didn't catch it? Levid37 07:13, 23 May 2006 (PDT)