Talk: Live Together, Die Alone

Spoiler

Do we still need the spoiler tag up, the episode has already aired?--Meterman 10:29, May 25 2006

Not in the UK it hasnt :)

No, we don't need the spoiler tag. To quote the Main Page, "Lostpedia is updated based on US airings." -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:29, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

ignore the theoretical plot line below

I would delete it. It's inaccurate and its presence will only serve to confuse those who have watched the episode and are looking for confirmation for ideas, observations, and hunches.

I strongly disagree. There is a big possibility that this was one of the earlier drafts for the finale. It probably should be moved to a page of its own, but definitely not deleted.

Kelvin is Joe Inman?

Is this confirmed? If so; cool!

No, just theorized because both characters are being played by Clancy Brown.--Isotope23 05:15, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

I read somewhere that he's a twin, I don't recall how reliable the source was, but if there is a 'bad twin' thing going on on the island. Also, Joe Inman was a bit of b*st*rd but Desmond's decription of Kelvin makes him seem, nicer, and he seems (in my memory) to almost reminisce about his relationship with Kelvin.. Could be wrong though, we'll see soon! I was certain we'd see Joe Inman again though, I have a theory he is some sort of DHARMA recruiter or 'temporal engineer' type guy, given the way he said to Sayid "one day you'll need to know something.. and now you'll be able to get it", it makes me think that he was training Sayid for the island. --Rayne 15:39, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

In the episode, he does make the comment to Desmond, "I used to be a spook, I know when someone is following me"...more of a definitive link that the two are the same? PanSavant 22:06, 24 May 2006 (PDT)

And he also made mention he joined Dharma "because men followed him", which would go inline with Joe Inman's military position. I'd say it is a pretty reasonable guess that Joe Inman is the same person as Kelvin and is just using an assumed name for some reason. I'd leave this as a theory though until it is actually confirmed.--Isotope23 05:17, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

He could be Kelvin Joseph Inman. I mean most people with odd first names don't often go by them, and instead use a nickname or their second name. I mean Desmond went by "Des". Penelope as "Pen" etc. "Kel" sounds odd, so maybe he used "Joe". --Circeus 15:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Button

I think that when the clock reaches zero, we'll see the glyphs, hear the cranking, maybe even see the map. Then, my guess is that it'll stop there and say LOST. What do you guys think will actually happen when it hits zero? DeGroot

My theory it's some sort of doomsday device, that triggers a catastrophe whenever the button isn't pushed, with the severity of the catastrophe increasing each time? It seems to me that the button is meant to be pushed by someone who is aware I bet that a machine could easily be setup to 'push the button' if it was neccesary. So for some reason it is necessary to have people do it either - it's an experiment or - it's designed so that in certain circumstances, the button isn't pushed. If you get me.. I don't know if we'll see anything.. I hope we do though, that button has been confusing me since we first saw it.

We all know that some great unveiling will be about to occur when we get hit in the face by 'LOST'.--Rayne 15:39, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

Isotope23! SPOILER TAG! --Keyes 08:40, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

I still like my original theory from way back. If the button isn't pushed, all the hatches get locked down and some electromagnetic machine spins up and effectively screws up the instrumentation on any plane or boat in the area, causing it to crash on the island. This is how Darhma gets their new "lab rats" to experiment on.--Stew Erickson 05:56, 22 May 2006 (PDT)

Interesting theory...--Isotope23 07:08, 22 May 2006 (PDT)

But Desmond has been down there for sometime now (what was it, three years?). And he has been pushing the button every 108 minutes. So how could the plane crash be caused by someone not pushing the button if he pushed the button? Jericho

Edit. Hahaha! Well that certainly proved me wrong! And just to prove my ignorance, they killed my three favorite characters! Touche, Lost, touche! Jericho 11:16, 24 May 2006 (EST)

YES! I knew it! :P --Stew Erickson 04:05, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Possible Plot Outline

I removed this from the main page because, frankly, the show hasn't aired yet so this is all theoretical. If it had been presented as theory, I'd have kept it on the main page, however it is presented as if it's fact and therefore might be misleading appearing on an episode page... --Xsg 16:29, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

P.S. - To whoever wrote this... If it turns out to be true, thank you so much! I wrote up the plot for the last episode... it takes hours of work to do this. --Xsg 21:58, 21 May 2006 (PDT)

Spoiler alert!

Please note that the legitimacy of this plot outline is disputed.

Survivors think they are being rescued when they see a boat. Jack swims out to the boat. Desmond is inside the bunker. They bring him ashore. Desmond has tons of booze with him, and a dark secret. Jack asks him where he was, and what he did.... During the 23 days he was gone, Desmond managed to fix his sailboat and sail off the island. Jack asks him what he isn't telling them.

We get FLASHBACKS of Desmond's life before the island, and when he first crashed there. Notable points here would be that Desmond was married to a girl named Penny, Libby was married to Charles Widmore, and Desmond borrowed Libby's boat for 200 grand for his race around the world. Kelvin finished the glow-in-the-UV-light map in the hatch; his original partner started it. And Kelvin is, or was, the twin of a certain Joe Inman, CIA man from Sayid's flashbacks. We see Kelvin drag Desmond to the hatch, type in the numbers and press the button, show Desmond the film, and Desmond begins pushing the button as well.

Present day: At night, Jack and Sayid come up with a plan involving Desmond's boat. Desmond disappears off into the jungle, heading for the hatch. The next day, Jack and gang load up to go. The 5 survivors depart. Charlie tells Hurley good luck. Michael leads them off. In the hatch, Eko continues to push the button. Locke enters and they talk. Locke laughs that he still pushes the button. Eko says he is a man of faith. Jack Kate Michael Sawyer and Hurley make their way though the jungle. They begin to pass though what Hurley says is the Dark Territory. There are MANY fallen trees around them. They camp for the night. Michael talks about how these people have harmed the survivors, particularly the 5 of them. He talks about how they killed Shannon, Libby, etc. Locke and Eko are having their discussion in the hatch. Locke argues with Eko on how he thought this place was destiny, that the island built him up just to knock him down, and how it is all an experiment. Locke tells him he plans to see what happens when the button reaches zero once and for all. He wants to make sure he is right. Eko doesn't agree with this. Desmond reaches the hatch and talks with Locke and Eko inside. He seems pissed. He asks Locke if he continued to push the button, to which Locke says yes. Desmond doesn't believe Locke.

Atop one of the hills, Jack and gang find a big pile of tubes from the Pearl hatch. Michael tells them they aren't far now and they must keep going. He leads them to the the spot where Zeke and The Others captured him. They begin to hear whispering. LOTS of it this time. Jack yells out that it's a trap when he spots one of them in the trees. They all open fire, it seems as if they are surrounded. There is another lockdown inside the hatch. We don't know why, but could this be some sort of final test? Locke is trapped inside the geodome with Desmond. Eko is locked out. Eko yells at Locke that he can't let the timer reach zero, but Locke has other ideas. The timer is at 107 minutes. Bernard talks with Claire and the baby, inquiring on what the vaccine is for. Claire explains to him, they bond. Sayid talks with Jin and Sun. He formulates a plan with Jin. Sun translates for him. Jin understands. Eko seeks Charlie's help on the situation in the hatch. He rushes to the beach and tells him they need to go gather the dynamite Charlie knows where it is. In the Hatch, Desmond and Locke argue about the button. Locke tells Desmond the button is not real, that it was all an experiment of the Dharma Initiative. Desmond screams at him, "Don't tell me it isn't real!"

Desmond tells Locke that he sailed away from the island, and was going to get them all rescued. But when he reached land, he discovered THERE WAS NO HUMANITY left. Desmond says that the entire world was not there. There was absolutely nothing. He believes that the button is to blame, recalling what the original Dharma film said. Locke is shaken by this, but thinks Desmond is crazy. The timer is at 43 minutes by now. Eko and Charlie gather dynamite from the stash and run to the hatch. Eko plans to blow the blast door. Charlie thinks he's off his rocker. Eko believes Desmond that the timer DOES do something when it reaches zero.

Meanwhile Jack and gang are all been captured by The Others. They are being led back to the village. Jin and Sayid have taken Desmond's boat and followed Rousseau's map along the shoreline to where Sayid believes the location of The Others could be. They spot the giant rock with the hole in it. Sayid sneaks up along the rocks with his gun, Jin trails him. To make it short, they interrupt the party and attack The Others. A fight ensues. Sawyer fights Zeke, and rips his fake beard off. SAYID IS SHOT, straight in the chest and falls back into the water. As chaos ensues in the camp, Michael sneaks up to the door in the cliff. There's a Dharma symbol resembling a door. One of the guards blocking the door is shot. Michael enters in and closes it behind him. Inside this room is the BIG reveal.

Back at the hatch, the timer is at 23 minutes. Eko and Charlie enter in with the dynamite. Locke and Desmond argue inside as the timer counts down past 15 minutes, 8 minutes, and 4 minutes. The beeping starts up loudly. Eko blows the blast doors; Charlie is knocked against the cement wall, unconscious. Eko runs in to push the button before the time runs out. Locke has knocked Desmond out unconscious with Eko's Jesus stick. Locke and Eko come to fists. Locke beats Eko to the ground. He takes the stick and SMASHES THE COMPUTER. It's busted, so now there's no stopping the timer. At the Others camp, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley seem to have overpowered The Others. Inside The Door, Michael finds Walt but is confronted by the FAKE HENRY GALE. Fenry tells Michael everything about what he is seeing right now, which involves three other people, the plane crash, Hanso, and a key. There's a SINGLE monitoring TV inside this room as well. It's a monitor for Station 3, The Swan. Fenry tells Michael that he needs to leave the island now if he wants to escape with Walt. The boat is ready for him at a back exit. The timer at the hatch reaches ZERO, and something does happen. Michael and Walt watch what happens as they escape the island with the boat, leaving everyone else behind. If we are to believe Desmond, they will find nothing else left.

Source: [1]

--Dow lord 16:11, 24 May 2006 (PDT) Nice theory, but I think Eko will use use the dynamite for the magnetic part of the hatch, hence him discovering it in Three Minutes.

Wow i'm surprised how similar that is to the real plot and yet so very wrong in many places, like sayid getting shot. I'm very curious how this info was aquired. BastionKane

Yeah I was thinking that too as I was watching the episode... some stuff was right, but much was completly off. The stuff that was correct was by and large content that was featured in promos, oficial blurbs on the episode, or leaked as spoilers elsewhere. My guess is someone saw an advance copy of the promo and pieced this together with existing spoiler info, then filled in the blanks with guesses (incorrect guesses at that).--Isotope23 05:15, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I added the last part of the plot where we see the scientists calling miss widmore... My english isn't that good and feel free to edit it to make it more correct -- B ramme 05:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Key

Does anybody else think that there's a small inconsistency in the fact that Desmond had no problem insterting the key into the failsafe device, despite the fact that it appeared to be a standard metal key? Shouldn't it have been ripped out of his hand by the intense electromagnetic pull that yanked the device's cover away as soon as he opened it? -TDK 06:16, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Maybe so. But perhaps the key was made of metal resistant to magnetic charges, or of a different polarity, or something. Rickyrab 06:27, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Like aluminum, stainless steel, etc. Many common metals are not attracted to magnetic fields. --Mramsey 06:32, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Eko's cross was clearly gold. And gold is not attracted by magnetism. Well unless its really crappy gold I suppose. Which is possible considering its source (Nigeria). As for the key, the top (logo part) seemed to be ceramic, its possible the rest of the key was too. --Circeus 15:17, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Researchers

Is there anyone who can say for sure that these men speak portuguese??? -- B ramme 06:42, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

My fiancee (who was born and raised in Ukraine/Russia) said it was Russian. --Just me :-) 07:26, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Definitely Portuguese. It sounded like Portuguese spoken in mainland Portugal, vice Portugese from the Azores Islands or Brazilian Portuguese. Maybe a little bit of Angolan (Angola is an old Portuguese colony) inflection, but I couldn't quite ascertain this. My guess is the actors are from Lisbon. --Oedipus 09:26, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

It is Portuguese, but there are some basic grammar errors. According to IMDB they are Americans, so their accent is just "American" :-) : Alex Petrovitch and Len Cordova. --CrisDias 19:47, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I am Portuguese and from Lisbon. They are American I guess - for they made some basic grammar errors nothing much though - but their accent is brazilian 100% sure.--Silva 03:51, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

No... that accent is not Brazilian. And since we Brazilians think the accent is from Portugal it kinda shows the accent is "from nowhere". Most like it is "I don't actually speak Portuguese but I have a dialect coach" accent. :-)

Being from Portugal I can say 100% sure that they speak what they want to pass for B.P.(Brazilian Portuguese), I know people from all around the Portuguese ex-colonies and know their accents well. Although its not well done its supposed to be B.P., from expressions like "tá quebrado" "fazendo" and the constant "seu" "sua", expressions much more frequent in B.P. Lets just say their techer was Brazilian.

on a footnote, the one who resembles Jack seems to be speaking Italian before he calls Penelope.

Walt

I could be wrong, but did Faux Henry say/imply that they got more than they bargained for when they picked up Walt? That could be why they're sending him away. He's too powerful (psychic or whatever) for them to experiment on, but he's still untrained, so he's not a danger to anyone outside.

--Jujo. 09:50, 25 May 2006 (EST)

That is what I got out of it too. Others have said that the bargain was trading Walt for 3 losties. But it sounded to me like the Others felt Walt was too much. --Snarf 19:36, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yeah. I imagine the Others do not want or cannot use Walt and will not or cannot kill him. Because they prefer not to leave their "home", they use Michael not only to bring Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley, but to expunge Walt from their environment. The Others may know the survivors could eventually use Walt against them, otherwise. In that scenario, poor Michael is being doubly used. --Spliznork 22:14, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I got that Walt has the ability to be two places at once, so it doesn't matter if Walt is also with Michael... —X S G 20:39, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

White glow - explosion - sound whatever

shouldn't there be a new page about the explosion, with some separate theories and stuff? -- B ramme 07:00, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yeah, defiently. But what to call it?--Piscez 07:02, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I would suggest "The Discharge" or maybe the fail safe? isn't there allready a page called fail safe??? let's have a look -- B ramme 07:08, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yes there is: Fail Safe though the original writer presumes it has smth to do with the explosion... Maybe go for discharge? and we can merge it later? -- B ramme 07:09, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Listening Station?

We should create a page for the Portuguese guys in the artic/antartic listening station, but I can't think of a name for it. We don't know where it is, or who they are. Maybe just wait for the official podcast and see how they refer to it?--Piscez 07:01, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Go ahead and create the article, maybe call it listening station. We can rename it if we learn the name next season. Mescad 07:03, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Hot blooper

Near the end of the episode in the scene on the Pala Ferry when Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer are on their knees and tied up, Alex proceeds to pick up Kate. Alex accidentally grabs Kate's breasts, then you can see her laugh as she quickly readjusts her hands. I must have re-watched this scene about 10 times just to make sure. Not to mention, it's a pretty hot thought...--oedipus 09:32, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

BUSTED I made a screencap out of it ;) -- B ramme 15:02, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

No theories or mention of the green bird encounter?

Seems an odd omission

See The Bird.

Portuguese Translation

I added something that the subtitles didn't show in the final scene. Being from Brazil and all, I'd say my portuguese is pretty good. It's in the notes section. I think I'll also add it to the listening station article. --Mothmanbr 12:07, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The Letters

As I mentioned in the Discoveries-section of Live Together, Die Alone, it seems that the letters by the Portuguese technician's computer terminal [2] are identical to Desmond's letters which Charles had intercepted. The only exception seems to be that they are not addressed to anyone (yet). Any theories on this? --Lint 21:15, 25 May 2006 (CET)

Indeed, and not only that: when one of the technicians is looking for something in the manual, there are at least two ISBNs visible on that frame. And there is a also a document under a mug just above the manual he is looking into. It would be really interesting if someone could provide clean screen-captures of that frame :) -- Isilando 20:28, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Here is another picture: one of the Portuguese technician's code book desk, on which one clearly can observe another letter, and that document placed under the mug. [3] --Lint 11.52:15, 26 May 2006 (CET)

Time of System Failure?

What was the time of the system failure on 09/22/04?

4:16 --Amberjet11 15:04, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Where'd you get that from? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:04, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The number that Desmond indicated was 092204416. 09/22/04 was the date, 4:16 was the time. --Amberjet11 15:06, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

But it was day when the plane crashed. Besides, didn't every entry end with ":16"? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:06, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

There is a screenshot here:

http://humpys.net/images/s2/planecrash.jpg

The number actually ends 044:16.

There's another number in the picture that ends 0410:52.

And here's another screenshot from ? showing that not all the numbers end in 4:16:

http://humpys.net/images/s2/printlog.jpg

--Amberjet11 15:10, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I see. but 4:16 where? -- Ramirez Selvarn 15:12, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

If the number that Desmond was looking at said 0922044:16, as indicated in the first picture, that means the time was 4:16. --Amberjet11 15:21, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Dave == David?

Someone wondered if Hurley's Dave could be Libby's David. --Recurr 14:35, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

...Dave is a hallucination. -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:35, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

It's an awesome theory. She could have projected him into hurley's mind somehow, since she was around during both times we saw Dave around. -- [Ernest] 14:55, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

She wasn't constantly near Hurley in Santa Rosa, that we've seen. And when Hurley followed Dave into the Jjungle, we don't know she was nearby. Besides, that assumes Libby can "project into Hurley's mind", a totally unsubstantiated and implausible theory. -- Ramirez Selvarn 14:58, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

The theory is that Libby's David was on the thingie Hurley made collapse and he was one of the people who died. He then later started thinking how he imagined Dave, who was smth like a ghost chasing him...

This seems very unreal to me, as it would have probably been mentioned by Hurley's shrink. -- B ramme 15:00, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I think she fantasized about being married to Hurley, so she pretended he was her husband David. And when Hurley got better, her "husband" died. --Amberjet11 15:22, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

So you are saying Libby had a crush on Hurley, wanted to marry him and thought up David, who she was married to but was an impersonation (or however you write that) of Hurley... She wanted to marry Hurley so bad, she thought up David... Smth like that... But then how the hell does it happen that Hurley sees Libby's halucinations... -- B ramme 03:01, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

That's not what I'm saying. When she was in the hospital, she most likely heard Hurley and his shrink talking to or referring to Dave. She fantasized about marrying Hurley, so she imagined that Dave was her husband (who would probably be her idealized version of Hurley, and one who knew that she existed). When Hurley left the hospital, "David" died. She may also have thought that if she mentioned her husband's name was "Hugo Reyes", Desmond might've recognized it since he was on TV for winning the lottery (not sure if it was about that time), or that he could actually be looked up. I'm not saying that Hurley sees Libby's hallucinations. Libby adopted Hurley's hallucination as her own, probably not even knowing what Dave was supposed to look like. --Amberjet11 09:56, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

As for the Dave = David theory, I like it. I don't think that Dave is 100% for sure a halucination. Check out the images on the Imaginary Dave page... Perhaps the polaroid really WAS tampered with??? I personally think that the LOST writers made the polaroid a little different to allow hardcore fans to theorize and to leave the door open to reintroduce Dave at a later date. --Cleast 16:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Sayid's Location

Just before Michael, Hurley, Kate, Jack, and Sawyer are captured by the others in the clearing, Sayid's signal fire is seen, suggesting that he is on the beach. However, later, when The Discharge takes place, he is shown to be on the boat with Jin and Sun.

-- Shaun

He was on the Sailboat because Jack, Michael etc. never came so you he paddle back to the sailboat. --Captain Insano

Awsome Power of Magnets.

Was a little anti-climatic, Desmonds reveal about him possibly bringing down 815. Something that was long considered as possible in the discussions here.

But a lovely twist that Locke's original idea was right about the importance of the Button and Eko's guess that the Pearl was fake and that the Swan was real.

--MRNasher

Though, Desmond bringing down flight 815 does not account for the flight already being 1000 miles off course. --Spliznork 00:02, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I think the EMP theory is a good one. EMP's have more effect when higher in the air then on land... It could well be that the plane was allready offcourse, and then brought down by the EMP, however, this doesn't explain how come the plane broke in 2 in mid air... -- B ramme 02:59, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

So what was "The Challah"?

Was it the moment that Locke realized he was wrong about the button? --Amberjet11 15:03, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I think it was the final scene where it is essentially insinuated that Penelope Widmore has a team of Portugese scientists monitoring for electromagnetic disturbances. The twist is that apparently at least one person on the outside is aware enough of the island to know that an electromagnetic disturbance could be coming from there... and presumably that Desmond is somehow involved.--Isotope23 12:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Portuguese man in Orange Jacket

Wait, he looks VERY familiar... isn't that Jack? --Brookshoal 18:25, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

That is Len Cordova, as noted in the credits. --CrisDias 19:53, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I still think he was chosen due to their remarkable resemblance, probably something related to the Bad Twin

Desmond caused the crash - red herring?

I wonder if too much faith is being put into the theory that Desmond's "system failure" caused the crash of Oceanic 815. As I remember it, he only says "I think I may have caused your plane to crash". He found a pattern of numbers in the log that could be interpreted as the date of the crash but other numbers in the log can not be interpreted as dates using the same format.

There is so much discussion elsewhere here about the island, or the Others, or DHARMA, placing people on the flight so that they would end up on the island. The Desmond/Kelvin incident at the boat which leads up to the system failure, however, doesn't have the feel of a setup. Kelvin would have had to orchestrate the event precisely to have Desmond follow him and then return at exactly the right time for the system failure to coincide with Oceanic 815 being nearby. --Mramsey 09:08, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Also, the producers stated prior to the episode airing that one of the big reveals will be the answer to why the plane crashed--Bernini 09:27, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Yep, I agree that it should not be stated as a fact anywhere on those pages. It is a really controversial matter and, in fact, there are more clues to cancel rather than support that opinion.
-- Isilando 09:32, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

That's why it's here, not the main page. If it was in fact Desmond's system failure, I'd say the Dharma Recruiter concept is very weak. I'll buy that all these somewhat connected people end up on the plane coincidentally and that the magnetic event is just another coincidence - but not that the 815 passengers were brought together on purpose AND the crash was orchestrated. OR... What if the producers just set us up for a whole new crash cause in the fall? The date format on the Pearl log still needs to be explained. --Mramsey 15:40, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

The Dharma recruiter concept is weak. It's all speculation. The producers stated they were going to explain the cause of the crash in the finale. Then, there was a cause of the crash given in the finale. I think that pretty much sums up the direct cause of the crash. Could there have been indirect causes? Yes, but the discharge is what ripped the plane apart midair.--Bernini 15:52, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I completely agree that the "Desmond caused the crash" idea is speculation at this point. I did some edits to the first few sections of Push the Button because the orignal text was written under the assumption that a) Pushing the button is definitely and exclusively meant to "diffuse electromagnetic build up," b) Desmond definitely caused the crash and c) Not pushing the button = disaster. None of this has been proven. It's highly doubtful that the button is exclusively (or is at all) concerned with preventing a massive electromagnetic disaster, because I don't think that that is all there is to it. Not to mention, it's highly unlikely that Dharma (assuming Dharma is in control, which is a HUGE maybe) would allow people (esp. people not working for them) to be in control of such an important activity. The fact that The Pearl is unmanned, and that the filled notebooks were being dumped in a field (apparently for a long time) supports this. --Cleast 15:59, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

How can you say it's highly doubtful? What evidence, as opposed to speculation, do you have or have we seen that makes it seem that it is merely a coincidence that the crash occurred at roughly the same time as Desmond's system failure, and that overrides the producers comments: "We are going to tell you why the plane crashed, Lost executive producer Carlton Cuse tells Newsweek of the season finale. "We're going to explain what happens if you don't push the button. "--Bernini 16:09, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I didn't say that it's highly doubtful that Desmond caused the plane crash. I said that it's highly doubtful that the button is exclusively used to prevent electromagnetic disasters. I agree that the plane crash and the system failure happening on the same day is not a coincidence, but do you REALLY think that the writers would allow it to be that simple?? It's still speculation on Desmond's part. Think unrelaibale narrator (although he's not a narrator, but same concept). And NO, we didn't learn what happens when the button isn't pushed, really, because the failsafe was activated, so we can't say that the light and sound was exclusively due to either the button not being pushed or the failsafe being activated. --Cleast 16:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

We do know what happens when the button isn't pushed. What we don't know is the ultimate result of the button not being pushed without the fail-safe being activated. We also know what caused the plane to crash. The story confirmed this information and the producers confirmed this information - therefore is should be considered confirmed for the purposes of the wiki.--Bernini 16:37, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I agree that we know what happens between the button not being pushed and the fail-safe being activated. This needs to be clarified in Push the Button (as I noted a moment ago in the discussion). I agree that the system failure probably "caused" the plane to crash... However, it needs to be reflected in the wiki that a) it isn't clear that this is necessarily due to an electromagnetic disturbance, given that we don't know enough about that from the show yet, and b) that there might be other factors involved. I'm not disagreeing with you or the show's producers. I'm just saying that in order to create a complete article, the fact that things are still at least somewhat ambiguous needs to be made clear. --Cleast 17:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

325

Interesting post from brokenbroken at TWOP.

Ok, don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I'm relatively sure that Henry Gale tells Michael to head at a barring of Mark 3-2-5 (correct me if i'm wrong).The Bible, Mark 3:25 says: "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." this is exactly what Henry Gale has been doing to the Lostaways in regards to the manipulation of Michael. with a quote so specific, maybe the Others are a group of religious zealots. they are "the good guys" after all.

It is likely an intentional reference by the writers that goes hand in hand with the "Live Together, Die Alone" theme of this episode (and segues into the broad theme they've indicated will be the focus of season 3).--Isotope23 11:55, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Locke banging on hatch door - Repetition!

When Desmond hears Locke banging on the hatch, Locke is saying a lot of out of place stuff.

"This was supposed to work."
Screaming from when his father took his kidney in the car.
"Why?"
"He wouldn't do this to me."
"I've done everything you wanted me to do, so why did you do this? Why?"

The bolded words are exactly the same sound clips. So, is this an editing mistake, or something else?

Vincent

Is it just me, or is it kind of wierd that Walt doesn't even say anything about Vincent? When Micheal got to see Walt in "Three Minutes", the first think Walt asked was "How's Vincent?". I just think it's wierd that Walt isn't the least bit concerned about his beloved dog.

He didn't really have much time to say anything, they were kind of busy getting away. --ChiperSoft 20:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Elizabeth whispers

No one has made mention of the whispers that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, and Michael heard when they were captured. It seemed very clear to my friends and I that they said "Elizabeth". Any thoughts? --ChiperSoft 20:30, 26 May 2006 (PDT)